The secrets to a happy retirement: Professor Joanne Earl shares what you can do
Featured episode
20 January 2025
Retirement gives you back something precious: time. So, what's your plan for a full and happy retirement?
On today's episode, organisational psychologist and retirement planning researcher Professor Joanne Earl shares practical strategies for this exciting new life chapter. They include:
- what you need to think about (hint: it’s not just your finances)
- how to make the transition from work to retirement easier
- hobbies, volunteering, or starting a side project
- investing time in relationships and avoiding loneliness
- prioritising physical activity and self-care.
Retirement is an opportunity to design the life you really want. Listen now to learn the strategies you need to achieve it.
Joanne Earl: I’m very pleased to be here.
Anne: Let’s face it, money makes people emotional, and I’m guessing with retirement people only ever think about the money aspects of emotion in retirement, but there’s a whole bunch of other components to wellbeing in retirement outside of money?
Joanne: That’s right, absolutely. When I first came in to do research in this area there were not too many people - a few people overseas - doing work in the area, exploring retirement planning and the connection with psychology.
Anne: How did your career come to this place where you’re now a doctor in psychology, organisational psychology and retirement?
Joanne: When I was doing my PhD, I was having a look at what predicts career outcomes for students. Does being really decided about a career make you a better accountant, for example? What I noticed when I was going into these organisations is just how much money organisations were pushing into graduates - graduate recruitment and retention. I started having a look while I was there at how much they were spending on employees at the other end of the lifecycle. I thought, “There’s an opportunity here to start working with mature workers and to have a look at the transition to retirement.” But there weren’t very many people doing work in the area. There was a real opportunity for me to open that up.
Anne: How long have you been doing this role at Macquarie University?
Joanne: I’ve only been at Macquarie University for about 7 years, but I’ve been working in this area of retirement planning for about 17 years. Before that, at Flinders University and UNSW, which is where I also did my PhD.
Anne: Have you seen a shift over that time?
Joanne: Yes.
Anne: You have?
Joanne: I have definitely seen a lot more interest, not just nationally but internationally. I think there’s still a lot of science to wrap around this. With the advent of, and improvements in, social media, we’ve got a lot of people talking about what they think predicts retirement adjustment, but they may not necessarily have the science behind it.
Anne: That’s interesting. I know you have spoken a lot about holistic planning.
Joanne: Yes.
Anne: Can you explain what that means?
Joanne: This was a model developed in the US. It’s called a holistic retirement planning model, and it’s also dynamic. I’ll explain what I mean by that. The model was developed by Mo Wang, who’s probably recognised in the world as the leading expert in retirement.
Anne: This person is in the US?
Joanne: He’s in the US, yes. We had a look at some of the theories that he had and at whether we could put it into practice, and we could.
Anne: That’s fascinating.
Joanne: Then what we’ve been building on from Mo’s work is 6 key buckets of resources that people need in retirement. Should I tell you about those?
Anne: You should absolutely tell me and our listeners about those.
Joanne: I’ll tell everybody about them. There are 6 buckets that we like to focus on in terms of what resources you need for a good retirement, for retirement adjustment. There’s wealth - money. There’s health. There’s social - social connections. There are emotions and your own psychological wellbeing. There’s goal setting and cognition. All of those components, those 6 components, are important for retirement adjustment. As those resources go up and down, so does retirement adjustment. But not all of those resources are equal. Some are more important than others.
Anne: ‘Retirement adjustment’ sounds like a technical psychological term. Does it just mean how you adjust to not working anymore?
Joanne: It’s how you adjust to a new lifestyle really. It’s how much you might miss work or not miss work. How much you feel like you’re making a contribution, being recognised, feeling satisfied that you’re enjoying life in general and that you’ve made a good decision to retire. It’s all of those components.
Anne: A lot of those things that you’ve just listed off with the 6 are all dependent upon each other. If one is out of whack, it could throw another one out of whack.
Joanne: That’s very true. When you have a look at those 6 different buckets of resources, they’re interconnected. The ones that are most interconnected are finances and health. We’ve found those to be equally important. If you’ve thought of it as a pyramid, at the top of the pyramid are finances and health, and they’re interchangeable.
Anne: Interestingly, I think you listed psychological wellbeing separate from health?
Joanne: I did.
Anne: Tell me about that.
Joanne: This is the model that Mo developed. He separated out emotions. We did find that emotions were important, but the physical health aspects of that were more important in terms of that health at the top of the pyramid. The reason is that if people have a problem with their health and they have to exit work early that might mean they’re retiring with less. Similarly, if they’re going into retirement and they’re ill, they may have to use some of the nest egg they’ve put aside to deal with health issues.
Anne: That can then create worries, which creates wellbeing stress, which can then flow on?
Joanne: Absolutely, into other areas.
Anne: Also, too, with probably a lot of these things that we’ve talked about that you’ve just referenced it costs money to be happy sometimes, too, to have societal connections if you wanted to go up to the pub and have a punt with your mates on a Saturday?
Joanne: Money gives you access to options, doesn’t it?
Anne: Yes.
Joanne: Whether or not that’s social, health, cognitive or housing aspects, all of those things are connected back in some way. There is an exchange between those different areas. But I think what’s most important to remember is that, when we’re having a look at those resources, people might have been focusing just on the finance component of it; if all of those other bits aren’t being attended to, that might reduce retirement adjustment.
Anne: Do you have a spider map? In my head, I’ve got a spider map with those 6 things around a circle and, as a person, you’re thinking, “How am I at in terms of wellbeing?”
Joanne: You could, but I look at it as a pyramid, as layered. Some of the resources are better at predicting retirement adjustment than others.
Anne: Tell me about that.
Joanne: At the top of the tree are finances and health. In the middle you’ve got social, and then at the bottom you’ve got emotional, motivation and cognition, in that order. Getting those things right at the top of the tree - health, wealth and social - will account for a lot of the retirement adjustment that we need.
Anne: From a weighting point of view, do they have a much higher weighting?
Joanne: Yes, they do have a higher weighting. Yes, that’s a good way of thinking about it.
Anne: If our listeners are thinking about retirement and this is making sense to them, how would you explain to somebody how to approach this, if this is resonating?
Joanne: We’ve developed some online modules that we have available with Macquarie Uni that people can do that will help them explore some of these areas, particularly the finances and health piece. What we added into the model that’s quite new is the careers area. When you leave work will matter. People need to start thinking about the resources they have, and thinking about how and when they’ll leave work, how they’re going to spend time when they go into retirement. That will be determined to some extent by their health. If they don’t have good health, that will be interconnected. And then also how much money they need to be able to fund the lifestyle they want to live. Some key important questions around those 3 areas are a great place to start.
Anne: You see on the news 99-year-old Esmae jumping out of a plane. She’s been volunteering for the RSPCA. Are there any reflections you’ve had about what keeps people healthy, alert and happy?
Joanne: I think the reason she’s on TV is she’s probably one of a kind. The reason people draw attention to those sorts of role models is they’re unique. If everyone wants to use Esmae as their measure of success, they’re probably going to be disappointed. For every one Esmae, there will be lots of other people who may experience ill consequences from drinking, eating the wrong foods, not exercising - all of the sorts of things that would keep us healthy. I think sometimes the reason those models get used as examples is that they’re extraordinary. I really hate images of people jumping out of aeroplanes, jumping on the back of a jet ski or just doing things that may not be typical activities. What’s wrong with pushing a trolley down the middle aisle of Aldi?
Anne: Nothing. My husband loves Aldi. He’s German; it’s his greatest national treasure!
Joanne: There you go.
Anne: With the cognitive element something that probably isn’t spoken about a lot is cognitive decline, particularly, and the impact on wellbeing. Tell us how this impacts retirement and people’s decisions?
Joanne: Let me just talk about cognitive decline in general to begin with. People can be fully functional with mild cognitive impairment and still enjoy life, but there are lots of different reasons. People automatically jump on the idea that it’s dementia. But we look at menopause as one potential source of change in cognition. The other one is mood - anxiety and depression. When people have low mood affect it’s likely to affect their cognition as well. We don’t necessarily think about that. It could be transient; these things may not be permanent changes. If you’re making a decision based on cognition that you don’t think you’re going to be able to continue the job that you do now because of cognition, it’s not a bad idea to eliminate some of the other possibilities before you jump to dementia.
Anne: Or before you quit work because you mentally can’t handle it anymore you actually go and validate what’s wrong with you; go to the doctor?
Joanne: Absolutely. Getting clarity on what’s happening is so important in that area. The other thing I see is people withdrawing from activities when they’ve got what they believe to be some cognitive impairment. These could be things to do socially and so they’re not engaging as well socially. One woman said to me one day, “I don’t play bridge anymore because I can’t count the cards. I’m worried that other people will notice and then they’ll drop me from other social activities as well.”
Anne: What did you say to her?
Joanne: I said to her, “How do you know that you’ve got decline?” She said, “It’s taking me longer to count the cards.” I said, “Haven’t you noticed similar things with your friends, that they’re taking a bit longer as well?” She said, “Maybe not as much as me.” But that’s what we would expect to see where people are putting a focus back on themselves and not looking at those other comparisons but, more importantly, not getting clarity from an expert. So, not going to see their doctor or not going to see a psychologist or a neuropsychologist.
Anne: When we were prepping for this show you referenced your teenage daughter forgetting something. That was a cracker of a story.
Joanne: I was at a community event. A woman came up to me and said, “I think I might have dementia.” I was talking about dementia and about not overthinking it. She said, “I put on my shoes, and I put my socks over the top of them. I think I have dementia.” I asked her what had been going on. She had just moved into a retirement village. Her husband had died not long ago. There were a lot of things happening in her life. I said, “I hear these stories all the time. I heard a story yesterday of someone who, when the sugar container was empty, put the scoop back in the sugar container and poured the sugar on top. Do you think that person has dementia?” She said, “It sounds to me like they might.” I said, “I better get going. I’ve got to go home and tell my 14-year-old daughter that she could have dementia!” It’s those sorts of things where you overgeneralise when something happens. If you’d been 20 years younger, you wouldn’t have even considered it as an option.
Anne: What impacts do social connections have? Volunteering in retirement gets put up on a pedestal but not many people do it, certainly in my circles. What are your observations?
Joanne: I think people are important in retirement. I’ll just say that I think loneliness is a chronic problem. I think being isolated socially can have negative consequences from a health perspective. What we do see is that when people retreat and they’re on their own cognition usually declines as well. So, people are important.
Anne: So, there is a link?
Joanne: Yes, there is. The loneliness thing is important. It’s finding where that new tribe is. Some people will overestimate the number of connections they have with people at work and not go out and explore and make new connections. I think it’s so important for people to connect with other people on a regular basis, even if it’s once a month.
Anne: Jo, you spoke about - says me, who doesn’t really do this - exercising a lot more. You speak about people who are planning for retirement saying, “I’m going to play golf” or “I’m going to do Pilates.” Can you give some advice to our listeners and viewers around this? If you’re 62, you’re planning to retire and you’re going to all of a sudden play golf, what should you be doing? But you’re not playing it now.
Joanne: That’s a good point. Well, 62 is an interesting number; 62 hours is the number of hours you’ll have free if you’re not working. What we have found when we’ve done research is, for every 5 people who say they’re going to play golf, only one person turns up. People normally return to activities they did before work got too busy. We do see a return and a reinvigoration of things that people haven’t tried before. I think this is a perfect opportunity to get out there and just try different things. Some of the things are going to be great or they’re going to be better than you imagined. Some of them are going to be worse. So, trying new things, getting out there and just giving it a go is the only way to really do it. And recognising that it is a bit hard. It is a bit hard if you’re the newbie on the block and you might have been the expert at work. But everyone is in the same position at some stage.
Anne: I think that’s why transition to retirement as a strategy is so fantastic. It creates the capacity to reduce your hours, and maybe that’s when you can start adjusting by introducing the new things you want to do?
Joanne: That’s right. You’d start small. If you think you’re going to be playing golf every week, maybe go 4 times a year to start with.
Anne: That’s better than not going at all?
Joanne: Or if you’ve got this big plan to go to the gym every day while you’re in retirement, maybe you should go once or twice now to see if you like it. If it falls over and you’ve got neither plans nor other things you want to explore, you might find yourself a bit disappointed.
Anne: So, final words of advice for somebody who is thinking about retirement? What are your strong words of wisdom as a woman who knows this phase of life inside and out? What would you say?
Joanne: Firstly, don’t just focus on your finances. Think about how you’re going to be spending those 62 hours and what you’re going to be doing, and make sure that that 62 hours includes a focus on your health.
Anne: And companionship?
Joanne: Hopefully, if you’ve got the right activities, you’ll weave that in so you’re not doing a lot of individual things but you’re doing group activities as well.
Anne: It’s been wonderful having you on the show. Certainly, for our viewers and listeners, we have plenty of information about things like transition to retirement. As Dr Jo just said, money is really important. So, if you’re trying to work out how you can fund your retirement, there are lots of educational episodes that we have on Super Insider to help you get up to speed with that. You can give us a call and do plenty of reading on the website, too, and reference Dr Jo and Macquarie University and the wealth of resources there.
Joanne: Yes, we have some online training modules.
Anne: Dr Joanne Earl; that’s where it’s at. Thank you to our listeners and viewers. Thanks for joining us on Super Insider. Don’t forget to subscribe. Tell your family and friends. We look forward to you joining us again soon.
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29 Nov 2023
The economy, market volatility and your superannuation
A lot has happened on the global stage since our host, Anne Fuchs, and Chief Economist Brian Parker caught up in August. In this episode, Anne and Brian examine how geopolitical conflicts could affect world economies, the future of inflation and interest rates, and the importance of making informed investment decisions during market fluctuations. Stay informed with this must-listen episode.
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12 October 2023
Protecting your superannuation from scams and fraud
It’s no secret that the internet has revolutionised the way we handle our finances, but it’s also opened the door to scams and fraudulent activities. And when it comes to our hard-earned retirement savings, most of us can’t afford to take any chances. In this episode, join our host Anne Fuchs and Australian Retirement Trust’s Manager of Financial Crimes, Rebecca Mallett and Chief Technology Officer Rod Greenaway as they discuss financial scams, how to spot them and how to keep your superannuation investment and information safe.
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11 September 2023
How to make your money last through retirement
Retirement is a major milestone in most people’s lives. But making sure that our money lasts throughout retirement can be a worry, and sometimes even a challenge. Don’t miss Australian Retirement Trust’s Senior Manager of Advice Delivery, Luke Caruana in conversation with host Anne Fuchs as they discuss how much superannuation is needed to retire comfortably, options for accessing your super in retirement and what you can do to help make your super last.
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14 August 2023
Investment market update August 2023
The economic landscape has experienced significant changes since the beginning of the year. Join Super Insider host Anne Fuchs and Australian Retirement Trust’s Chief Economist, Brian Parker as they break down the latest market developments and investment conditions, interest rate changes, cost of living and what it all means for your super. Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance.
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11 May 2023
Transition to retirement – your guide to accessing your superannuation while still working
While many people eagerly look forward to their golden years as a time to relax and enjoy life, the transition from work to retirement needs careful planning.
In this episode, join Australia Retirement Trust’s Member Education Officer, Patrick Dunlop, and our host, Head of Advice and Guidance, Anne Fuchs, as they explore strategies you can use to transition to retirement that allow you to work less while continuing to grow your super.
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8 May 2023
How to choose your superannuation investment options
Your superannuation investment strategy can significantly impact your retirement outcomes. But with so many options available, how do you choose the right one? Join Australian Retirement Trust’s Head of Private Corporate Assets, Elizabeth Kumaru, and Head of Advice and Guidance, Anne Fuchs, as they discuss how super is invested and what you need to consider when choosing an investment approach that suits your needs and retirement goals. Tune in to this must-listen episode to gain valuable insight and take control of your super.
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8 May 2023
Investment market update May 2023
With international markets still uncertain, it’s never been more important to stay informed and take control of your financial wellbeing. Join Australian Retirement Trust’s Chief Economist, Brian Parker, and Head of Advice and Guidance, Anne Fuchs, as they examine the latest market developments, including interest rates, the federal budget and what it all means for your superannuation investment.
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14 February 2023
What happens to superannuation when you die?
You work hard for your superannuation savings, so what happens if you never get the chance to spend them? Hint: It’s not the same as your other money or investments. Join host Anne Fuchs and super educator Ruth Weaver as they explore what happens to your super when you die and what you can do today to make sure your money goes to who you want when you pass away.
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14 February 2023
Can I use my superannuation to buy a house?
With housing prices rising over the past decade, the Great Aussie Dream of owning a home can seem just that – a dream. But did you know you can use your superannuation account to help save for your first house deposit? In this episode, host Anne Fuchs and super educator Megan Ashenden break down how the First Home Super Saver Scheme works and the pros and cons of taking money from your super to buy your first home.
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8 February 2023
Investment market update February 2023: Outlook for the year ahead
2022 was a wild ride for investment markets with volatility impacting superannuation fund returns, including Australian Retirement Trust’s. Don’t miss Australian Retirement Trust’s Chief Economist Brian Parker in conversation with Anne Fuchs, Head of Advice, as Brian recaps the market ups and downs of 2022 and discusses what the New Year might hold for interest rates, investment markets and your super.
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2 November 2022
How much superannuation you need to retire – and how to get it
It’s the number everyone wants to know – how much superannuation do I need to retire?
Join Australian Retirement Trust’s National Education Manager Joshua van Gestel and Head of Advice Anne Fuchs, as they crunch the numbers to reveal how much super you need for a comfortable retirement income - and what you can do today to make sure you have enough later.
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1 November 2022
Five easy ways to grow your superannuation today
When it comes to superannuation, most Australians have a “set and forget” approach. But there are simple and easy things you can do today to maximise your super contributions.
Join Australian Retirement Trust Member Education Officer, April Smith, in conversation with Head of Advice, Anne Fuchs, as she shares her top five tips for making the most of your super right now. Future you will thank you.
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19 October 2022
Investment market update October 2022: Interest rates, investment markets and superannuation
Investment market ups and downs are becoming the ‘new normal’ and continue to impact superannuation fund performance, including that of Australian Retirement Trust.
Don’t miss Australian Retirement Trust’s Chief Economist Brian Parker in conversation with Anne Fuchs, Head of Advice, as Brian discusses what’s affected markets in the last quarter, how this has impacted super returns, and what it could mean for your super investment and retirement savings.
Watch on YoutubeAny advice given is provided by representatives of Sunsuper Financial Services Pty Ltd (ABN 50 087 154 818, AFSL 227867) or QInvest Limited (ABN 35 063 511 580, AFSL 238274), both wholly owned by the Trustee as an asset of Australian Retirement Trust. As representatives, they may recommend ART superannuation products when they are appropriate. Please refer to the relevant Financial Service Guides available at art.com.au/fsg for Super Savings and at qsuper.com.au/disclosure for QSuper. The content is provided for general information and educational purposes only, any personal views and opinions in this podcast are not necessarily the views of the Trustee.
This information and all products are issued by Australian Retirement Trust Pty Ltd ABN 88 010 720 840 AFSL No. 228975, the trustee of the Fund, Australian Retirement Trust ABN 60 905 115 063. Any reference to "QSuper" is a reference to the Government Division of the Fund. Information is correct at the time of publishing. This is general information only and does not take into account the investment objectives, financial situation or needs of any particular individual. You should consider if the information is appropriate to your own circumstances before acting on it. You should also consider the relevant Product Disclosure Statement (PDS) before deciding to acquire or continue to hold any financial product and also the relevant Target Market Determination (TMD). For a copy of the PDS or TMD, please phone 13 11 84 or go to the Australian Retirement Trust website at art.com.au/pds or for QSuper products visit qsuper.qld.gov.au/pds or call us on 1300 360 750 for a copy.